The Real Sarah Palin Issue
… is she a Canadian sleeper agent? You heard the speech. While she never said “eh?,” I did notice strikingly Canadian intonations in her speech.
As for Palin’s daughter, I think this is another case where Democrats need to tread lightly. I’d rather not sound polemical, so I won’t delve deeply into this.
The Obama campaign, incidentally, has been smart so far — they’ve kept the focus on McCain.
Actually, my sources indicate that she plots to lead a revolution to create the Republic of Alaska and the Yukon.
The Obama campaign, indeed, has done well; some of his less refined supports have not treaded so lightly. It’s rather disgusting.
— Nathan P. Origer · Sep 1, 06:06 PM · #
If you ask me, her accent is straight out of Minnesota/Wisconsin. It’s uncanny.
— Adam W · Sep 1, 06:31 PM · #
Reihan – I agree, the Obama campaign has handled itself well when dealing with the Palin issue so far. I think that it is more than self-evident that she is not ready for the Vice-Presidency (and by implication, the Presidency), but I think that the Obama campaign can tread lightly here and allow Palin herself to reveal her lack of preparation to the American people. Already the “for it before she was against it” storyline on the bridge to nowhere, the “I’m not sure what the Vice President actually does” quote, her personal family success with abstinence-only sex education, the shock and dismay being expressed by Alaskan state legislators, etc, will get plenty of media traction without the Obama campaign addressing them directly. They can take the high ground here.
To me the big issue is not her experience measured in years-served, but her previous lack of ANY on-the-record expression of interest or thinking about anything beyond conservative social issues and Alaskan regional concerns – I’m sure she’s a very intelligent person, charismatic, and pleasant in her private life, but she hasn’t provided any evidence that she is a thinker. Regardless of where you fall on the political spectrum, I think we can agree that having a President or Vice President who has spent countless hours considering and finessing their positions on dozens of pressing national issues, who has debated these issues with their peers, who has surrounded themselves with experts and advisers to help them synthesize these views, who has, in sum, thought deeply about the world, is the type of person we want in charge of our country’s future.
— Hans Friedrich · Sep 1, 06:43 PM · #
What Joe Scarborough really thinks about Palin Nomination!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTbsbeY5k5k
Let’s see how they spin it this week.
— Angellight · Sep 1, 07:19 PM · #
A Canadian sleeper agent? Deo volente!
Perhaps a repudiation of the Declaration of Independence is in the cards, then?
— gabriel · Sep 1, 07:21 PM · #
You are, of course, too nice a guy to call out Sullivan as often as one might be tempted to, for his real descent into repulsive-human-beinghood this electoral season…
— Sanjay · Sep 1, 07:37 PM · #
If you’re talking about the Brolin/Trig pregnancy, Sanjay, my question is, would the question be off-limits… even if true? I’m just asking. Remember, this is the election cycle of “Obama is a Muslim”. Those questions were largely defused when journalists… wait for it… investigated and learned the truth of the accusations! It was a victory for Obama to have those questions put to rest through investigation. Right?
— Freddie · Sep 1, 09:55 PM · #
To be clear, my interest isn’t in Brolin Palin’s baby to be, or whatever. My interest is in whether we consider a question beyond the pale, even if it turns out to be true. There have been a lot of public figures in history who have had some ugly rumors about them that turned out to be true. So what’s the right way to consider these rumors? And does an illegitimate question become legitimate if the answer to the question ends up being in the affirmative? That seems strange to me. I honestly don’t know.
— Freddie · Sep 1, 10:28 PM · #
I still remember how disappointed I was when I first spoke to people from the Mountain West, and instead of sounding like cowboys, they talked like extras from Fargo.
— Matt Frost · Sep 1, 10:30 PM · #
Freddie – speaking from an Oakshottian conservative’s perspective, the answer would be that nothing is off limits, all is political, and the press must be allowed to do its job because enquiring minds want to know.
If it werent for such diligence, the public would never have had the opportunity to contemplate photos showing the belly of a teenage girl who is quickly understanding the fallaciousness of that concept known as intimacy.
— JT · Sep 2, 12:31 AM · #
Actually, I wasn’t thinking the baby stuff, I was briefly “out of the loop” anyway. Sullivan descended into slime-throwing back during the primaries. At the time, well, Hillary Clinton induces that in so many people that Sullivan, while among the worst offenders, was hardly alone, but. Then on to the “cross in the dirt” hyperventilation, now this.
Now, let’s do look at your Obama-is-a-Muslim “smear” example. It took me by surprise because I hear that argument nearly daily regarding torture and prisoner abuse: “Don’t you know what they do?” and I’ve generally regarded, they do it so why can’t I, as the worst kind of moral cretinism. But I’ve heard so much about how some things just come back to moral first principles so I’m sure I don’t get it. Gawwwwwleee, them’s jest some damn complicated first principles things you done got thar, I’m sure I jest cain’t unnerstand it.
The Obama-as-a-Muslim “smear” (in quotes because, it’s not, even a little, a smear. I’d be much happier if the Obama campaign would underline the bigotry in the claim as often as they deny it but I don’t really expect that from the campaign that kicked off by smearing Indian-Americans.) was crude. It was “worse” because of the fundamental bigotry driving it. So? That excuses Sullivan being a dick, how?
But your claims about how the media investigated it are not really valid. For one thing, the smart ones didn’t: Obama’s been pretty vocal that he considers himself a Christian so there’s never been anything to investigate, and that’s been the mainsteam press’ (reasonable) attitude. Yep, some nutjobs went and sent them some crack reportiners to go look at just whether or not Obama’s schools were in fact MADRASSAS! and got back a “no.” But you know what? Exactly those people are still convinced that Obama’s a secret Muslim. There is no justification I can come up with for “Those questions were largely defused when journalists… wait for it… investigated and learned the truth of the accusations!“ I mean, it sounds clever and all, especially with “wait for it,” so again it’s probably too subtle for me.
Is there stuff that’s off limits? Wow, again, those first principles elude me. In my world, some stuff civil people don’t do. Funny, I seem to recall Freddie calling out some slimy campaigning…nah, can’t be.
And the great thing is, you say, “does an illegitimate question become legitimate if the answer to the question ends up being in the affirmative?“ THe thing is, it can’t be in the affirmative. Suppose it could. I mean, let’s suppose Sarah Palin went and adopted somebody else’s developmentally challenged child, because God knows that’s a great lark. So? McCain’s adopted kid — is McCain’s kid. Same standard here. Palin is the —- legal —- mother. If Sarah Palin has taken guardianship of someone else’s kid — it’s hers. Period. Until and unless she tells the child differently. It is nobody’s goddam business to question the word of a child’s guardian, on that child’s parentage (unless there’s a custody suit or a child support issue kicking around.) It is a dirty filthy thing to do.
Secondly — look, lots of shit seems real clever when you’re sitting in your dorm typing away on the Internets between term papers. I have some age and miles on me. Probably we’ve most of us (guys) had girlfriends who’ve had scary wacky period timing or whatever and had to think hard about that. Since then I’ve had a wife pregnant a few times, delivered, well, less than a few times, and some scary complications along the way. This stuff is really, really personal. People get very invested in it. There’s a reason why, say, people who aren’t particularly pro-life fanatics (or even pro-life) often treat a miscarriage as the death of a child. There’s all kinds of plans and issues. Every little piece of your medical history comes up. And when Sullivan and his type thunder with such goddam moral clarity [*] that team McCain absolutely must release the OB/GYN records … look, there’s a reason why somebody normally as circumspect as Tyler Cowen flatly calls it outrageous. He understands something you just don’t. And you won’t til you have a kid — that’s unbelievably patronizing but it’s true, so, tough rocks.
Sullivan, like Yglesias, has neatly joined the ranks of people who seem to be hell of smart but just don’t seem to worry lots about, you know, being good, kind human beings. I don’t have a lot of respect for that. I’m sure you’ve got some clever first principle which calls for a dirty polis though.
[*] Wow, I’m glad these guys are out there defending women’s rights!
— Sanjay · Sep 2, 12:58 AM · #
I append — when Obama says he’ll fire anyone pushing this crap, I like to think it’s not because it’s the only smart political move. I like to think that, like me, he thinks, if that worm said this about my wife and daughter and developmentally-challenged son, I’d kill him.
— Sanjay · Sep 2, 01:13 AM · #
Sanjay, you’re not even operating on a basic level of intellectual honesty or integrity. I did not say that the rights calling Obama a Muslim excused Sullivans behavior. EVER! I didn’t come close.
Here’s the truth, Sanjay: you’re just a biased conservative who under girds every comment with some sort of weak appeal to heterodoxy or open-mindedness or whatever. It’s bogus. You just want to leverage every one of your personal opinions by claiming, through nothing but fucking assertion, that you’re the morally superior person. When Matt Yglesias snarks about John McCain, that’s dirty pool. When Reihan writes the most sneering political posts I can imagine, well— that’s fine. You’re just a partisan. That’s all. All of your rhetoric, all of your
Whether or not Bristol Palin is the biological mother of Trig Palin, of course, can either be true or false. Your whole “I’m a parent, I know what’s up, if you adopt a child you have to be their parent” line is just empty verbiage, a way to punish me for daring to ask a question. And what was that question? It wasn’t to question whether Trig Palin is Sarah Palin’s daughter. As a matter of fact, I’ve never questioned that or even said that those questions are fair game. I asked an honest question about process and whether the empirical truth about a scandalous question can render that question fair game. You know, the empirical question of whether or not Trig Palin is Sarah Palin’s biological child. I don’t give a good god damn if he is or isn’t. I do care that we have a meanginful set of criteria for what is proper discussion, and to what degree the truth about certain questions makes a quesiton illegitimate or not. There is an answer to the question of whether Barack Obama’s school was a madrassa or not. The answer is that it was not. Was answering that question unfair to Obama? On the contrary, his campaign praised the work down in determining that it wasn’t. Where were you, then, Sanjay, when those questions were being bandied about by conservatives? Where are your comments attacking the book that asserts that Obama is a Muslim, or that he still does drugs? Where was your righteous indignation, oh soul of responsible and fair discourse, when the swiftboating of John Kerry was taking place? Why aren’t you on here decrying John McCain’s campaign for claiming that Obama was involved in publishing rumors about Palin, when he wasn’t? Why is your sanctimony reserved only for those you consider enemies of conservatism?
Just so you know, Sanjay, as a teenager I was orphaned. My stepmother kicked me and my siblings out of our house. I lived on futons and cots for the remainder of my high school experience. Contesting my fathers will was incredibly difficult and long. I had nothing, for a very, very long time. I have taken care of myself since I was 15. No one has ever given me anyting. I put myself through college. I bought my first car. I endured losing both of my parents to cancer by my adolescence, being forced from my home (which my father bought), watching my stepmother sell his possessions, spend my rightful inheritence, and take everything my family had from us. We were helpless. Helpless. I experienced the utter destruction of family, and I dug myself out of it, to make a life. I will take no pretentious lessons on what it means to live from you. I’ll keep my own counsel on endurance, and I won’t bow before the self-importance of someone who thinks that he can assert the character and value of every person and position on earth.
I promised myself a long time ago I would never bring that up in a political discussion. But I can’t help myself; I’ve never been insulted like this before. Never.
— Freddie · Sep 2, 01:22 AM · #
I don’t know. All I can think about is that if I was 17 and pregnant, I would really need my mom and some privacy. This girl definitely won’t have much privacy, and I wonder how much of her mom she’ll have with Palin on the Republican ticket. I just feel bad for her being thrust into the spotlight. If I was her, I’d probably be mad at my mom (my teenage self would; I can see that being picked as VP is a big thing).
Also, I’m a Democrat, but I always enjoy reading this site. I guess because the writing here is usually pretty good and well reasoned, and I like reading what the other side is thinking. I can do that here without anyone yelling or being crazy. However, in the past few weeks, and especially now with this Palin thing, I have to say the election crazy has spread even to TAS. There was that one post that said that Dems shouldn’t be so outraged by Palin, but rather should be cheering. There was the post that said that she wasn’t that inexperienced. It’s just weird to see spin and anger on this site.
— PS · Sep 2, 04:51 AM · #
PS: I tend to agree with you. The ‘election crazy’, as you put it, really needs to go away and everyone needs to calm down a little.
Reihan, nice job on Radio Times today.
— Klug · Sep 2, 02:58 PM · #
Am I reading this right? #1 says, you don’t understand how emotional pregnancies are because you haven’t had one. #2 say, no but I used to be a rich kid, so you see I do so understand.
Works for me!
— Confused · Sep 2, 11:22 PM · #