My Enemy
I have few enemies, intellectually speaking — enemy ideas, that is; real nemesis visions. To qualify for nemesis status, a vision must be coherent, compelling, and viable on a mass scale. So I am not particularly worried about, say, the rise of actual Socialism in America, or the eventual transformation of everybody into militant atheist scientists, or most of the larger bugaboos upsetting our supposed public mind on the wide cultural right. There are only a few plausible destinies we face that I find deeply troubling — that is, only a few ways in which I really think we, us now with all that entails, could go wrong.
In consequence, I am sometimes apt to harp on certain apparently marginal themes, to the detriment of apparently more central ones. The net effect may be a certain initial opacity as regards what is known in academe as my Broader Intellectual Project. But then an exchange like Friday’s between Damon Linker and Rod Dreher comes along, and suddenly my assorted remarks on therapy and transgression, liberaltarianism, pink police states, and the sex vote take on, if not new relevance, the cast of a greater unity. I have more to say about some of these things in in other venues, but a few comments, here, are in order.
Linker writes as follows:
Somewhat fewer Americans are identifying as Christians; somewhat more are identifying as secular. And even those who remain religiously traditionalist are a bit less likely to believe that they should work for the transformation of the nation through the medium of electoral politics.
To my mind, these are all encouraging trends. (Though they are merely trends, and so could be reversed given the right circumstances.) And yet they leave the most important and interesting question unanswered: What will provide the theological content of the nation’s civil religion now that the “mere orthodoxy” of the evangelical-Catholic alliance has proven unsuitable for a pluralistic nation of 300 million people? To my mind, the most likely and salutary option is moralistic therapeutic deism. Here is the core of its (Rousseauian) catechism, in the words of sociologist Christian Smith:
1. “A god exists who created and ordered the world and watches over human life on earth.”
2. “God wants people to be good, nice, and fair to each other, as taught in the Bible and by most world religions.”
3. “The central goal of life is to be happy and to feel good about oneself.”
4. “God does not need to be particularly involved in one’s life except when God is needed to resolve a problem.”
5. “Good people go to heaven when they die.”
Theologically speaking, this watered-down, anemic, insipid form of Judeo-Christianity is pretty repulsive. But politically speaking, it’s perfect: thoroughly anodyne, inoffensive, tolerant. And that makes it perfectly suited to serve as the civil religion of the highly differentiated twenty-first century United States.
Rod replies that “Linker ought to thank God, or whatever, that the Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., and those who marched and stood with him, were actual Christians drawing on the full strength of the Christian tradition, instead of Moralistic Therapeutic Deists who professed a “thoroughly anodyne, inoffensive” form of the Christian faith. Nobody finds the courage to face down police dogs and Klansmen in the vapid mewlings of MTD. MTD Christians don’t sing “We Shall Overcome”; they trill “We Shall Accomodate.”“ So Rod “would much rather see Christians who disagree with me on gay marriage taking to the streets demanding what they truly believe is justice for gays and lesbians, than deal with squishy pastors and other Christians who run away from what, no matter which side you take, has become a very important issue of liberty and rights.”
Now then:
(1) It is notable that Linker is saying nothing that Tocqueville hasn’t already. “Belief in an immaterial and immortal principle, for a time united to matter, is so indispensable to man’s greatness that it has fine effects even when it is not united to a conception of rewards and punishments and when one believes no more than that after death the divine principle embodied in man is absorbed in God or goes to animate some other creature” (544 in the Mayer edition).
(2) But for Tocqueville the great spiritual danger facing democracies is pantheism. “Not content with the discovery that there is nothing in the world but one creation and one Creator, he is still embarrassed by this primary division of things and seeks to expand and simplify his conception by including God and the universe in one great whole. If one finds a philosophical system which teaches that all things material and immaterial, visible and invisible, which the world contains are only to be considered as the several parts of an immense Being who alone remains eternal in the midst of the continual flux and transformation of all that composes Him, one may be sure that such a system, although it destroys human individuality, or rather just because it destroys it, will have secret charms for men living under democracies” (451-2).
(3) Linker gives us no indication that he either fears or expects what he calls “moralistic therapeutic deism” (MTD) to lose even its accommodating minimal creed and slide down into pantheism. But he does hint that MTD is of such great value or meaning in a country like ours today because in times and places like ours we “want to reconcile conflicting principles and to buy peace at the cost of logic” (450); i.e. rather than an endless earthly war over our foundations and convictions, and over how those issue forth in policy and law, we seek spiritual repose in comfortable, inclusive wishy-washydom.
(4) Linker gives our great diversity a positive spin, but Tocqueville, again, diagnoses exactly the same social order in slightly less flattering terms. “When there is no authority in religion or in politics, men are soon frightened by the limitless independence with which they are faced. They are worried and worn out by the constant restlessness of everything. With everything on the move in the realm of the mind, they want the material order at least to be firm and stable, and as they cannot accept their ancient beliefs again, they hand themselves over to a master. For my part, I doubt whether man can support complete religious independence and entire political liberty at the same time. I am led to think that if he has no faith he must obey, and if he is free he must believe” (444).
(5) Unlike Linker, Tocqueville is a rallying figure and touchstone for intellectual conservatives of a religious bent. But where Tocqueville identified pantheism as the bad plausible halfway house between salutary faith and unbelief, Linker identifies MTD as the good plausible halfway house between unhealthy, inevitably-politicized faith and unbelief. The question for Tocquevilleans is whether MTD is both more plausible and worse than pantheism in a way Tocqueville didn’t or couldn’t quite grasp.
(6) I maintain that the answer is yes. But from the position of political or social theory, the reason why must carry more water than “MTD is contemptibly weak.” For, on its face, it satisfies Tocqueville’s admittedly reluctant criteria for a minimally salutary faith of a sort that will well (enough) nourish political freedom in a democracy. Notably, Tocqueville observes that if “Catholicism could ultimately escape from the political animosities to which it has given rise, I almost certain that that same spirit of the age which now seems so contrary to it would turn into a powerful ally and that it would suddenly make great conquests” (450). In theory, it is extremely plausible, adding Linker’s view to Tocqueville’s, that MTD is most at home within a Catholic church, in which the ruling creed were so remissive, comprehensive, and lovingly vague that the faithful would gladly realize within it all its longings for equality and unity. All it would have to tolerate would be an increasingly token and administrative ecclesiastic hierarchy, which would parallel closely enough the bureaucratic intermediaries with which they have become well familiar already in political life.
(7) Yet it is extremely difficult to imagine the mass Catholicization of America, because another institution of sorts has already grown up to keep MTD afloat. The therapeutic economy admits of a serial hopping among affinity groups that would be impossible even beneath the all-encompassing umbrella of a one true therapeutic church. No matter how remissive, a Catholic church cannot provide enough exit options for the therapeutic purpose of MTD to be adequately realized. This does not mean that some Catholics could not try to realize it, championing Catholicism as in fact the supremely best of both remissive and repository worlds. (In fact, you can expect this to happen.) It only means that in today’s America even they will ultimately be disappointed if they seek really mass appeal.
(8) To observe that MTD is most likely to remain a ‘Protestant’ phenomenon in the US is, therefore, to observe that religious pluralism remains of great therapeutic value, insofar as it affords the open opportunity for individuals to therapeutically cross and transact back and forth between ‘official’ and ‘unofficial’ behavior and sojourn across and through different experiences of ‘officialdom’. Nonetheless, if, in the ultimate act of wanting to have one’s cake and eat it too, one seeks both a plurality of official experiences and a supervening unity of ‘final’ officialdom, the natural answer is a riot of contingent, fleeting religious options plus a single, inescapable Rule of Law organizing the whole of social life into a governmentally-speaking official zone and a governmentally-speaking unofficial one. Under such a regime, official moralism will take on an increasingly gentle cast — even when it officially ‘gentlizes’ otherwise beastly behavior — while the unofficial moral life will increasingly revel in the unregulated character of its ungentle transgressions. Liberal government, in a great synergy, will work so hard to stamp out public cruelty by legal means that it will create a still-public but technically unofficial zone in which profound cruelties will go officially ignored or denied to be such. This kind of bifurcated public life creates endless opportunities for the processing and reprocessing of experience through therapeutic institutional performance. Between official charismatics and unofficial ones, whose ritual and anti-ritual characters and behaviors will constitute poles of godlike hospitality and theatrical beastliness, the vast therapeutic apparatus will mediate and manage our comings and goings. But rather than being a journey up and down in a hierarchy of sacred authority — the social order of, for instance, Christendom — it will be a horizontal shuffling to and fro.
(9) The promise of MTD is to convincingly-enough deny that this shuffling takes place between two types of enchanted but merely secular power. As such, it makes religious faith and worship profoundly complicit in the production both of ever-more-transgressive ‘unofficial’ acts and the ever-more-remissive official absolution of those acts. This creates undoubted psychological pressure on individuals, yes; but more importantly from our perspective, it creates huge institutional pressure on the social order at large:
these are the kinds of dilemma with which this form of the moral life is always confronting us, making us see double by directing our attention always to abstract extremes, none of which is wholly desirable. It is a form of the moral life which puts upon those who share it, not only the task of translating moral ideals into appropriate forms of conduct, but also the distracting intellectual burden of removing the verbal conflict of ideals before moral behavior is possible. These conflicting ideals are, of course, reconciled in all amiable characters (that is, when they no longer appear as ideals), but that is not enough: a verbal and theoretical reconciliation is required. In short, this is a form of the moral life which is dangerous in an individual and disastrous in a society. For an individual it is a gamble which may have its reward when undertaken within the limits of a society which is not itself engaged in the gamble; for a society it is mere folly. — Michael Oakeshott, The Tower of Babel
We are left with two questions: (1) how long can MTD play the official/unofficial oscillating game before breaking down? And (2), how opposed to the therapeutic might our practical deists still be — for reasons drawn directly from our deist inheritance?
I think the whole argument hinges on (8) but it seems unconvincing. I see a whole lot of “X” leads to “Y” leads to “Z” kind of reasoning at work in (8) but I am not sure why they would except that you think so.
— scritic · Apr 13, 11:14 AM · #
One question immediately suggests itself: how accurate is your model?
Here are some things to think about, which to me erode the reliability of your description.
1. Oakeshott has the judgment/conduct/justification interplay exactly backwards. That’s just a fact, jack, one with tremendous repercussions for your theory (or at least the simplified version presented here).
2. When the 60’s “great disruption” first hit its strong libertine powerchord, we saw violent oscillations in behavior suddenly adjacent and interacting in the same society. Since then we’ve been cooling off, settling into a new stable rhythm in both sexual and public-political conduct. This happens naturally, until the next great disruption.
3. Later generations always define themselves against the backdrop of earlier generations, against their assumptions, blindnesses and excesses. This tends to have an arresting and regulative effect on socio-cultural drift.
4. The drive for esteem always bends “unofficial public behavior” back toward the norm. Individuals and even groups might reach escape velocity and become spectacle, but this is tremendously rare in the halls of power.
5. You quote Tocqueville, “Belief in an immaterial and immortal principle, for a time united to matter, is so indispensable to man’s greatness that it has fine effects even when it is not united to a conception of rewards and punishments…” This might be true, but America doesn’t have to worry about it. Not only do we have immaterial and immortal principles enshrined in our founding document and Bill of Rights, we have them reduced to practice in the Constitution and subsequent jurisprudence — i.e., our Koran and Hadith. Rather than waning in effect, these principles are stronger than ever, intuitively uncontroversial, perpetual centripetal forces, universal measures of our progress toward a more perfect union.
— JA · Apr 13, 11:57 AM · #
Interesting. I understand more about your concerns now.
“When there is no authority in religion or in politics, men are soon frightened by the limitless independence with which they are faced. They are worried and worn out by the constant restlessness of everything.”
This is where Zen Buddism (and mybe some other types of Buddism too) comes in. Really. You might think it’s all liberal, squishy and new agey, but it suggest that one should learn to live with the profound ambiguity that is our situation and provides techniqes to do so. It’s the harshest, most rational, and maybe most difficult of all modern religio-philosophical approaches that I know of. Dealing rationaly with harsh realities is something conservatives appreciate right?
— cw · Apr 13, 11:58 AM · #
Thanks for this post, James. Your musings have indeed grown more opaque lately, and this goes some way toward dispelling the mists.
I’d like to see some concrete illustrations of how your prognosis might play out in society. What new tacitly condoned “profound cruelties” do we have to look forward to in the “unofficial zone”? S&M clubs of hitherto unimaginable ferocity? A revival of gladiator games? Car-crash-as-fetish a la J.G.Ballard? Or what? I’m with you and Dostoevsky: in an increasingly regulated society, one in which previously transgressive behaviors are continuously processed and rendered as bland hobbies, the self will go to antisocial extremes in its pursuit of transcendence. But I have a tough time imagining what that might look like.
Re your adoption of the word “beastliness”: evocative, but it does make you sound a bit like a character in a Wodehouse novel…
— Andy · Apr 13, 12:43 PM · #
JA: you are right (3) about ‘snapback effects’, but the compounding trajectory within which they’re situated (2) calls into question what more their prospect can get us but radical, and radically humiliated, hope. Namely: we have been ‘cooling off’, but another term for this is ‘institutionalizing’. Ours is not the most transgressive age, but it may be the most remissive. Our charismatics are much more therapeutic than the Street Fightin’ Men and the Men of Wealth and Taste of the late ’60s and early ’70s; ours, unlike them, were born into a far more therapeutic culture — eventually, if our pop tarts are any indication, self-consciously so. In the place of Jagger’s real charismatic transgressions we have Britneyesque therapies of transgression. Snapback effects may have already rendered Britney a contemptibly phony charismatic, but until “the next great disruption,” by which you seem to mean another cataclysm of transgressions, our social order remains defined by its remissiveness; which colors indelibly and exactly cultivates the force and variety of the next transgressions to come. At root, all transgressions are closer or further approximations of true barbarism. In implying that our remissive capital accrues and compounds over time, you suggest that our routinizing banalizations are powerless to prevent those approximations from closing closer and closer in on true barbarism. The extent to which snapback effects accomplish what accommodating, disenchanting institutional remissions cannot is determined by the force of repentance as a mass psychological, social, and cultural phenomenon. But institutionalization proceeds on the assurance that radical repentance is ‘unnecessary’, ultimately precisely because of its ‘destabilizing’ and ‘disruptive’ character. As for your (1), please elaborate; I’m really just getting seriously acquainted with Oakeshott, and need all the help I can get.
cw: I eagerly await the re-presentation of Buddhism as a severe and noble discipline, especially insofar as it commands an ethic of not doing.
Andy: these are possibilities, “why-nots” (isn’t everything?), but we have already discovered the economy of scale involved in learning how fake ultraviolence is so much more enjoyable than real ultraviolence. Indeed, we heap contempt on people too subnormal to enjoy the first without lapsing into the second. I anticipate the proliferation of great supposedly virtual cruelties, routinized mutual humiliations of the heart, entertaining ritual dismemberments of the I from the self and the soul and the setting of these against one another, individually and socially. The limit of real S&M is in its uneconomic irreversibility at its depraved extremes: salutary for suicides, but not transgressive entertainers in it for the long haul. Physical cruelty is best used as a symbolic spice — though be prepared for exchanged pains ‘transcendent’ enough on earth — for more personal, intimate, varietal, fungible, and sustainable dismemberment plans. The extremes to which we will go in our ‘sublimation’ of cruelty will be assuredly social.
— James · Apr 13, 01:24 PM · #
Not doing in the face of existential ambiguity is sever and noble.
— cw · Apr 13, 01:25 PM · #
Not to be forever cast as the perpetual little kid at the Emperor’s Naked Parade, but why can’t you just acknowlege that it is wrong to impose politicized socio-religious mores on unwilling citizens in a Republic?
All this rabid flailing around to justify something that evolutionary theory of culture is just going to force out of the public square anyways….
— matoko_chan · Apr 13, 02:58 PM · #
James: Ours is not the most transgressive age, but it may be the most remissive.
I agree to a limited extent. Let me restate your points: two things might happen after “disruptions”: a snapback effect, or a cooling-down and settling-in of the transgressing movement (the jello contingency). The latter results in remissiveness concerning the previously stigmatized conduct. Another way to say this is, the original conduct becomes predominantly un-moralized.
But are we remissive in general? Moral-public outrage is hardly ever absent, it is merely displaced. So what are our “new stigmas”? What if anything do they have in common? How can we say whether this new normative arrangement is better or worse than the old one? To me, it can be characterized like this: we’ve recently un-moralized all manner of person on person intercourse, for better or worse. But Care always finds a way in, and our Care reappears one level up. In effect, we transferred our innate other-judging botheredness, strong as ever, to the phenomena surrounding intergroup intercourse, for better or worse.
Barbarism is a tricky measure. There was a great study done at Ann Arbor a little while ago, measuring the amount of testosterone and cortisol released by young male students (18-21) when overtly challenged by another young male. These dudes (dupes) would go to an office, thinking they were being tested for something or other. Before arriving, while walking down a busy hallway, experimenters arranged for another guy to smash shoulders with the dupe and then say something rude and challenging. The dupe would then show up to the office and get his hormone levels measured (testosterone and cortisol control fight-or-flight).
It was shown time and again that males from the rural South showed much higher levels of testosterone and cortisol than their brethren from the northern metropolises. Southerners were much more agitated by being challenged, and took way longer to cool down. They were also much less likely to give ground if another guy, this time a huge football player, got in their path as they traversed the hallway. Even little guys stood their ground, damned if their social position was going to be challenged again without a fight.
It’s always hard to draw conclusions from stuff like this, but it’s easy to see some if-then implications. Southern society is marked by the continued existence of manners, a kind of default friendliness that immediately hits you if you’re from a place like, say, New York City. To a certain extent it’s still an honor society, with vague but absolute boundaries that, if crossed, lead to confrontation and violence as fast as you can say ‘jump.’ Men down here will fight at the drop of a hat to preserve their reputation. They will do anything to avoid the label of coward.
The majority of young men from the North do not behave this way. They have both sharper elbows and thicker skins; they have an easier time dishing it out, but they are averse to violence and can shake off insults without much sweat. Their society is not characterized by manners and politeness. (This is all gross oversimplification, of course, so treat these as hypothetically true).
Which society is more barbaric? I think that’s hard to say.
To me, a better measure is logical depth. Certain norms enable it, certain norms stunt its growth, and certain norms actively decay its value. But that’s a big topic.
Let me look at my notes on Oakeshott before I venture a detailed response.
— JA · Apr 13, 04:03 PM · #
Not to be forever cast as the perpetual little kid at the Emperor’s Naked Parade, but why can’t you just acknowlege that it is wrong to impose politicized socio-religious mores on unwilling citizens in a Republic?
Who’s imposing?
— Freddie · Apr 13, 04:46 PM · #
sheesh Freddie…this is just fancy verbage to give cover to opposing SSM.
— matoko_chan · Apr 13, 04:59 PM · #
JA: You are a paragon.
— a young man · Apr 13, 05:22 PM · #
1) MTD as a civil religion, a la George Washington’s Thanksgiving Proclamation, is unconstitutional according to our current Supreme Court jurisprudence. Er…so, Linker and his “MTD-ists” will face an immediate problem, and from the very people they would most need as allies. Rod and James push his ideas past the point of merely being a civil religion, which is going to cause confusion…but I’m going to run with that confusion! But note that even simply as a proposal for a Civil Religion, this thing cannot fly.
2)matoko_chan gives us prediction # 4,567,894,003 that religion will inevitably fade away in modern times. Jefferson thought every educated american would be a good unitarian by the time he died. He was demonstrably wrong about this, about the expected rapidity of religion’s decline. But would Mr. Chan ever be willing to admit that, aside from the question of the RATE of decline, that he, and TJ, and the other predictors might turn out to be wrong about the CERTAINTY of religion’s fading away? What is the plan B of Mr. Chan’s politics, in case Tocqueville and others are right that humans are inherently religious and that religion will always remain? Answer: he has none.
3) It would be the thinkers/imposers of the off-and-running Rawlsian tradition who would be the true authority behind whatever public myths the soi-dissant intellectuals subtly encourage about the MTD. So the simultaneous maximization of individualism and equality, “philosophically” structured, would be the guiding aim. But why turn to such an MTD when you’ve already got Rawls and co.?
4) But unlike George Washington, who actually believed things about the biblical God and Jesus, and not simply for the sake of the nation, our posited Rawls-esque elites wouldn’t believe in anything about the MTD beyond its political usefulness. And most of their charges would know it, or at least, be unable to make themselves believe in the MTD.
5) Which brings us back, if not to revivals of biblical religion, to Pantheism. The long existence of monistic ideas in the Indian traditions and elsewhere shows you that it can at least plausibly meet the spiritual yearnings of humans, which a “heaven” or a “God” that is “posited for the sake of sustainable political liberalism” will never be able to do. Like stoicism, and perhaps in Buddhism’s case WITH a sort of stoicism, it is an age-old approach to the basic human yearnings for transcendence. So, no surpise, I think Toc. was right. MTD is an oddity suggested by our situation: no-one really holds it, Linker has open contempt for it, and even a determined attempt to try to encourage it would have to fail. We can deduce this even before we review all the ps and qs of why this lil’ thing called the Bible will pose a real barrier. So what future could MTD really have? We might act AS IF we believed MTD, but if so, those who don’t stick with traditional religion, largely stoics, pantheists, or some combination thereof, would simply be using MTD as a convenient operating system. A sort of manners. And for a more systematic account of what is convenient, a Rawls-esque lawyer would always be available, indeed, inescapable.
6) But there is another spiritual wild card. As Plato’s tyrannic man and Melville’s Ahab both show you, the human soul can only tolerate so much of the multicolored democratic man and so much Emersonian happy talk. Eventually, even the symbolic violence we cultivate as a spice (that James is so right to talk about) for our dutifully liberated lifestyle will not satisfy all of us. Gangstas and Fight Clubbers who actually do break on through their democratic/MTD upbringing to “mean it, man” in a way the punk rockers almost never did will have to be dealt with. Although James’ (hellish) vision of a democratic soul pliable enough to indefinitely cultivate “virtual cruelty” in more elaborate ways is important to consider, a number of things suggest its impossibility. But thank God, as Peter Lawler might say, the world will always suck because “tyranny-aspirants you will always have with you.” No procedural formula will make it not so.
7)Finally, to amplify a point already made, where is Old-time Christianity going to go during the predicted development of MTD? Is it not going to remain around continually reminding would-be MTDers that the Bible and/or the Catechism baldly contradicts such-and-such a doctrine? Only the most barabarically semi-educated and apathetic about religion are going to be able dimly think that Christianity is basically MTD. MTD churches, by definition only sustainable by those who care about religion and who know the doctrines, will not be able to plausibly present themselves as biblical. But since the idea (toyed with mainly by James—again, Linker largely limits himself to a recommendation of an official civil religion) seems to be that present-day watered-down evangelicalism or Catholicism will gradually morph into the MTD, this is a huge problem for MTD ever getting off the ground.
— Carl Scott · Apr 13, 06:23 PM · #
A young man — thanks, unless you’re calling me an excessively large white pearl. If the latter, then super thanks!
James, I don’t know why I didn’t think about it before, but what about flappers.
— JA · Apr 14, 12:58 PM · #
Damon Linker?! The dude was my freshman comp teacher at Penn.
— Owl · Apr 14, 02:03 PM · #
2)matoko_chan gives us prediction # 4,567,894,003 that religion will inevitably fade away in modern times. Jefferson thought every educated american would be a good unitarian by the time he died. He was demonstrably wrong about this, about the expected rapidity of religion’s decline. But would Mr. Chan ever be willing to admit that, aside from the question of the RATE of decline, that he, and TJ, and the other predictors might turn out to be wrong about the CERTAINTY of religion’s fading away? What is the plan B of Mr. Chan’s politics, in case Tocqueville and others are right that humans are inherently religious and that religion will always remain? Answer: he has none.
1) ima girl. Japanese girl names nearly invariably end in “o”, and chan is a japanese honorific meaning “young lady” in context. Because I use big words and im naturally aggro, I am very often mistaken for an XY.
2) As I have REPEATEDLY said, religious belief is hard-wired in homosapiens sapiens. the only way to eliminate religious belief would be species-wide genetic engineering.
Religious belief is not an option for the lower middle of the bell curve……it is all they have got.
3) MTD is preferable to oldtime christianity…..but just barely. It is just a dilute form. Sully nails it.
— matoko_chan · Apr 14, 03:53 PM · #
Speaking of intellectually aggro, c’mon Lieutenant.
Give it up.
You have promised and now you shall perform.
Give me the secular reason to oppose SSM.
— matoko_chan · Apr 14, 04:04 PM · #
Apologies, Ms. Chan. Good to learn about the “o” clue, and good that you concede the religious nature of humans. Now if one could only get you to concede that, contra what the likes of my main guide Tocqueville might lead you to believe, the relevant issue for both America and Europe ain’t this social-science category “religion,” but CHRISTIANITY. See Hugh Heclo’s fine Christianity and American Democracy on this. But politically, you’re deaf, dumb, and blind on this, because you refuse to understand that accepting democracy means accepting the unwise and even unjust decisions of majorities in a whole slew of situations. We can and should limit the whims of those majorities via constitutionalism, but the problem remains. THERE WILL ALWAYS BE THOSE WHO WANT MORALS LEGISLATION. Sometimes they will win. Can you deal with that? If the likes of you scream “separation of church and state” every damn time, scream “acknowlege that it is wrong to impose politicized socio-religious mores on unwilling citizens in a Republic,” well, we’re in trouble. Pray tell WHAT morals question can possibly be disucssed in an AMERICAN (or again, even European) culture, without at the very least the legacy of Christian beliefs coming into play? Or, do you simply want to demand, that no non-quantifiable moral issues ever be discussed? You know, revise freedom of speech? Revise the enumerated powers of our legislatures national and state? This is related to your blindness on SSM having a plentitude of secular reasons against it. See the Cordy and Spina dissents in the Goodridge case for starters. But I’ll give you one basic secular reason. Unless society goes the Vermont democratic route of adopting SSM, having the courts do so will be one more nail in the coffin of the Constitution. Admit it. Face it. Concede it. Conservatives like myself are correct that the living constituionalist manner of interpreting the Constitution is very dangerous to our long-term political health. It is THE greatest factor in the polarization afflicting us. LET a couple states ban abortion, ADMIT there ain’t no right to privacy in the Constitution. ADMIT you have to AMEND the thing to get what you want on this and on SSM, and we can remain living in American harmony such as it is. Insist that everything go your way, define the main terms in advance so that it must do so? Well, we either get a regime of judge-rulers, or, the culture wars become a civil war. Those are the real stakes that sane liberals need to for once in their life admit.
— Carl Scott · Apr 15, 09:26 AM · #
“But unlike George Washington, who actually believed things about the biblical God and Jesus, and not simply for the sake of the nation, our posited Rawls-esque elites wouldn’t believe in anything about the MTD beyond its political usefulness.”
Well I’m someone who has read every single thing GW ever said on religion (I’ve gotten through Michael & Jana Novak’s 300 or so page book and Peter Lillback’s 1200 book and have meticulously searched the Fitzpatrick Papers), I can assert this states too much.
Washington was a devout theist and a man of Prayer and Providence. But there is virtually no evidence that he believed for instance an inerrant infallible Bible or accept Jesus as God.
Further, what GW mainly valued about “religion” was precisely its utilitarian effects, not its saving grace.
Washington’s religion wasn’t too far off from MTD; though I would call him either a “Christian-Deist” or a “theistic rationalist,” perhaps a small u “unitarian.”
— Jon Rowe · Apr 15, 12:51 PM · #
“Jefferson thought every educated american would be a good unitarian by the time he died. He was demonstrably wrong about this, about the expected rapidity of religion’s decline.”
I’m not so sure Jeff. was wrong about this. Remember TJ was never a member of the “Unitarian” Church but a lifelong Anglican-Episcopalian. He was a small u unitarian.
How many practicing members of Christian churches, who grew up attached to its rituals are really orthodox Trinitarian Christians? I don’t think we know. But I’ve talked to pleny to Roman Catholics and Protestants who tell me they aren’t sure if they believe in things like the Trinity, infallibility of the Bible, Jesus the only way to God, etc. MTD may well the be dominant form of Christianity, not just now, but since the very start.
Evangelicals should esp. understand this given their faith STRESSES the “narrow gate.”
— Jon Rowe · Apr 15, 01:01 PM · #
Good comments, Jon. Thanks for the report on the Novak and Lillback books. I certainly would not expect that GW affirmed inerrancy , but I did hear the Novaks speak once about the book you read, and came away with the strong impression that GW believed in the Christian doctrine that Jesus is God.
To address your larger point, just because most Christians at most times probably can’t articulate the precisely orthodox doctrine of, say, the Trinity, and thus that many of them feel unsure about it, does not mean that these people aren’t Christians, does not mean that the doctrines won’t remained defined by church leaders, and does not mean that Christianity is morphing before our eyes into MTD. We now have two centuries experience with theologically liberal Christian churches, i.e.., churches trying to doctrinally and organizationally get closer to the MTD, and we can see that they tend to lose numbers as they become more theologically liberal, or at least that the second and third generations don’t stick around. Christianity may be diminishing in the USA, and in the wake of the diminishment it may SEEM like lots of people hold the MTD, but that’s a different thing.
The take-away here, though, is this. Folks like Linker are smart enough to see that very few societies have held together without a civil religion. Folks like Chan are smart enough to see that humans are probably inherently religious, and SOME religion is always going to exist. These folks SHOULD be smart enough to see that just as Islam isn’t going away anytime soon in the Middle-East, Christianity isn’t about to do so anytime soon in the USA, (Europe’s a more complicated story, but the revival possibility there remains significant.) and thus that smart liberals SHOULD have a plan for working with orthodox Christians that presumes they will remain orthodox, so that the Democratic Party can attract them, and so that it a jurisprudence isn’t set in place that needlessly antagonizes them, or needlessly attacks the cultural inheritances (can anyone say “marriage”?) of Christianity that are closely woven into the fabric of our society. For a brief period of time, an exciting thing about Obama was the sense that he might help the Democrats partially realize this. In this context, talk of MTD amounts to happy talk for liberals (and to a lesser extent, libertarians): “don’t worry about the need to have a Democratic big-tent for pro-lifers, etc., and don’t worry about the need for jurisprudence that still allows Christian-backed morals legislation as well as a Christianity-influenced conception of marriage, because they’re all going to becoming MTDers eventually!” Happy talk, with sad consequences for all sides.
No. Christianity in its basic form is going to be the predominant religion in America for a long time, perhaps for as long as America exists, and no liberalism that cannot deal with that fact is healthy.
— Carl Scott · Apr 15, 02:22 PM · #
I have to say “Wow!” first. I enjoyed reading this and #6 almost took the remaining flavor from my Healthy Choice Chicken & Rice soup. Some of my favorite moments in church are the ones when the pastor insists that there is some objective morality grounded in a Christian worldview. There is much freedom in Christianity, as far as I can see, and the boundaries it places on our actions are largely for our good. I can’t see the point of being a Christian in this current world if it’s the same as being an unbeliever.
— Joules · Apr 15, 03:47 PM · #