The American Scene Advice Column
Today’s question:
You’ve complained about the PUA community, and I agree that they can say some pretty shady stuff, but at least they’re making an argument about what manliness is instead of just going along with a culture where guys gradually lose their whole identity. I don’t think the number of hot women you bed is necessarily the definition of manliness, and I don’t even expect you to be able to give a overall definition for that sort of thing, but at least give us something positive for those of us who want to revel in our identity as men. What kind of shaving cream do you think a real man uses? What should a real man’s approach to sex be if not what guys like Roissy say? Is there anything a real man never does?
I don’t presume to have an infallible, exclusive definition of manliness, but I’ll set forth my own opinions if they’re all that’s standing between you and the self-styled pickup artists.
1) What kind of shaving cream does a real man use?
In my limited experience, a real man buys the biggest container of gel shaving cream on offer to minimize the frequency with which he is forced to shop at the pharmacy, where the clerks are always painfully slow.
A real man nevertheless runs out of shaving cream eventually, and his aversion to banal errands is so great that he winds up using the Skintimate Moisturizing Cream Shave — usually in a pink bottle — which tends for whatever reason to be the brand of choice for various women whose showers he has shared, namely his sister until he moved away from home, a couple roommates, and various girlfriends over the years. These women all complain loudly if he is caught using their razor to shave when his own razor is lost or without its blades, but they seldom if ever catch on to this gradual, victimless pilfering.
2) What should a real man’s approach to sex be if not what guys like Roissy say?
Whole books could be written detailing the shortcomings in the Roissy In DC approach to sex, dating and gender relations, so I’ll just choose a particularly glaring flaw in his worldview — one that casts the anonymous man who writes the blog as a tragic figure. One aspect of Roissy’s worldview is his disdain for women — they are for him shallow, contemptible creatures that men are justified into manipulating into sex. It is difficult to think of a misogynist as sociopathic in the blogosphere.
Even so, Roissy judges the worth of men according to how many women they can attract. For example, he glorifies the alpha male constantly, and defines that category thusly: “The alpha male is defined by the hotness of the women he can attract, the strength of their attraction for him, and the number of them who find him attractive.”
I’d say that a real man should avoid a) relying on the approval of others for his self-worth, b) making something he disdains the object of his desire, and c) a romantic life wherein he never gets to experience the best kind of sex — the kind where your partner is someone you love, lust and respect. That isn’t to say that all three are necessary for enjoyable sex, but a man who knows what’s good for him aspires to that trinity, and if he finds it, he is lucky indeed.
3) Is there anything a real man never does?
Speaking of Roissy — “One time I backhanded my girlfriend across the face. Hard. I won’t get into the details of what led up to the altercation, except to say that the slap was fully deserved.” — a real man never hits a woman, excepting these circumstances only: a) self-defense from serious injury; b) defending an innocent party from serious injury; c) when she is a soldier in an enemy army. Perhaps I am forgetting something, but I think from this you understand the narrow range of defensible exceptions.
Do you have a question for The American Scene Advice Column? Send your e-mails to conor.friedersdorf@gmail.com — theater questions will be forwarded to Noah Millman, fashion and Napoleonic-era philosophy questions to James Poulos, questions requiring quantitative analysis to Jim Manzi, questions about fiction and East Bay eateries to Matt Feeney, English literature and Web architecture questions to Alan Jacobs, network maintenance and Jeffersonian urban planning questions to Matt Frost, video game and wedding planning questions to Peter Suderman, questions about how to run a morally upstanding gas station to Dara Lind, questions about France to PEG, and questions about charcoal drawing, hip hop lyric writing and cultivating social networks with diverse groups of interesting people to Reihan Salam.
I’ll take the rest.
So I made the mistake of clicking on the Roissy-beating link and I have to say you are way, way too soft on him here. What a massive ass (him, not you).
— rob · Oct 2, 01:17 PM · #
1) Roissy is indeed an ass, or pretending convincingly to be one.
2) Ultimately, it’s almost like a prisoner’s dilemma. Assuming arguendo that I find sex with hot women extremely desireable, and that PUAs are having lots more sex with much hotter women than me, then I have to decide whether it is (i) possible and (ii) desireable to pick up some PUA tactics.
Ultimately, I always end up deciding no, because (i) it sounds like a lot of work, (ii) I’m not sure I would be very good at it, and (iii) I feel morally responsible for people I am manipulating, and prefer the moral cleanliness of dealing with fully informed free actors.
— J Mann · Oct 2, 01:29 PM · #
For the record, real men don’t use gel shaving cream. They shave with traditional shaving soap and a badger hair brush, and preferably use either a double-edge safety razor or a straight razor.
— Alex Knapp · Oct 2, 01:41 PM · #
This is all kind of funny to me. Just the other day there was this thirty-something chick sitting at the bar, suggestively accoutred in tight denim, high heels and a boob shirt, alone and sipping white wine. Clearly, this mama was there to be seen and picked up. The only question was, who would it be?
Sure enough, some chochbag comes up and starts performing magic tricks.
Did it work? I don’t know; I didn’t stay long enough. It was pretty pathetic though. Wretched even. I felt bad for the girl, and repulsed by the guy.
In a metropolis like New York, social costs like me can be neutered by sheer size and diversity of place. But beware if you try it in a smaller town: you are defining yourself for all time if you are seen using desperate tactics to pick up women.
— Kristoffer V. Sargent · Oct 2, 01:53 PM · #
Here’s one. I’m reading the Salam/Tanenhaus dialogue right now and it makes me wonder, as I have occasionally:
Where do I have to go to where I’ll be heard be all the liberals working for Big Media when I scream at the top of my lungs, “Attention, you morons, but ‘teabaggers’ is most definitely not the word you are looking for!”
— Sanjay · Oct 2, 01:55 PM · #
Heh. Indeed.
— Kristoffer V. Sargent · Oct 2, 02:03 PM · #
Do you think the rules on when to hit a woman would generally apply to a weaker party (and also, not fully apply when say dealing with a female martial artist who is stronger than you, general rules on hitting people would still apply of course)?
— Greg Sanders · Oct 2, 02:27 PM · #
I think the rules on hitting don’t apply within the context of specific sports played according to the governing rules. So, two martial artists of equivalent size and skill may spar in class, even if one is a man and one is a woman. (I’m female, and I have sparred with men who are about my size.) There tend to be separate divisions for actual competition, though.
You probably shouldn’t hit a strong female martial artist if she is minding her own business, or even just mouthing off at you, but I’d say a man is free to defend himself if she attacks.
Broader rule: real men — and real women — don’t go around starting brawls.
— M.C. · Oct 2, 02:41 PM · #
Afterthought… some people also like hitting in sex games. Sometimes she hits him, sometimes he hits her. People who know each other very well and trust each other are free to play these according to whatever rules they find mutually agreeable. This may be a subset of sports, but it isn’t what I meant by the first post.
Contra Roissy, not all women like this. The vast majority don’t. And it should never be imposed unilaterally, without consulting the partner and establishing the rules of the game. That violates the trust part.
— M.C. · Oct 2, 02:50 PM · #
Dude, it’s more than a little ridiculous that you’re answering questions about manliness
— anonymous · Oct 2, 02:53 PM · #
If a woman strikes me, I will subdue her. Same thing goes for cats and sailing booms.
— Kristoffer V. Sargent · Oct 2, 03:29 PM · #
I think Machievelli said it was OK if the woman is Fortune.
— Sanjay · Oct 2, 03:43 PM · #
These are good rules.
— Adam Greenwood · Oct 2, 03:48 PM · #
Greg Sanders writes, Do you think the rules on when to hit a woman would generally apply to a weaker party?
Of course not, and if the pussy boy hurts his hand she has to kiss it and make it all better.
— Sanjay · Oct 2, 03:53 PM · #
What happens if dinner is cold?
— Kristoffer V. Sargent · Oct 2, 04:04 PM · #
I should say, contra Conor, that in my (pre-marital) experience, the kind of sex where the two of you really hate each other is also pretty awesome and worth doing sometime. I’m talking about hating each other as equals though. Like you really have to pretend and seem sincere when you say you forgot that that was the safe word.
— Sanjay · Oct 2, 04:09 PM · #
Where is Tony Comstock on this one?
RE shaving cream, I agree with Alex. Foam all the way.
— pc · Oct 2, 04:32 PM · #
How do I get the mildew stains out of my boat’s saloon cushion covers?
Fill a trash barrel half full with warm water. Add enough bleach to make the water feel slippery. Immerse cushions and weight with a large cobble. Churn every 5-10 minutes. Drain. Repeat process twice with clean, unbleached water.
Does this Summer’s surfeit of rain having anything to do with my lawn has more clover and fewer dandelions?
99% unrelated.
Should I pivot the branding of my films towards health/education, or stand my ground on on the idea that they are entertainment?
Stand your ground, but embrace that they are also valid in an educational and/or therapeutic context.
Speak of, just got our biggest order from Amazon since Xmas? Green shoots?
Inconclusive. But it seems likely it’s a meaningless outlier.
How come NYC, UCLA and USC are interested in my lecture, but Princeton said “no” the same day I sent my query.
Because the guy at Princeston was unimpressed with your proposal.
— Tony Comstock · Oct 2, 05:22 PM · #
Anon was close. The preeminent rule of real men is that they don’t blog about being real men
— Baca · Oct 2, 06:50 PM · #
If you have to ask, you’re not a real man.
— Erik Vanderhoff · Oct 2, 07:21 PM · #
Question for Tony,
Why the hell can’t I find anyone who wants to pay me to think up great ideas? It’s like they all want me to work them out, write them down, edit and polish the bastards until they shine like the sun. And even then most of them won’t pay! What gives?
Signed — Chugging Chivas in Chattanooga.
— Kristoffer V. Sargent · Oct 2, 09:06 PM · #
You know, in a day when Republicans are cheering the loss of millions of potential jobs to Rio and are openly committing treason I’m so glad we’re talking about this, instead.
— Chet · Oct 2, 10:38 PM · #
KVS, given the wit, eloquence, and insight that characteristic of your comments here at TAS, I have every confidence that if what you want is to get paid for thinking up great ideas, there is virtually nothing of consequence that stands between you and that goal. It might take a little longer than you expect. You might end up getting paid a little less than you had hoped; but it will happen, sooner or later, and in sufficient quantity that you’ll think it worth the time and effort.
Let’s check back in 10 or 20 years and see if I’m not right, k?
— Tony Comstock · Oct 2, 11:15 PM · #
I’d not read Roissy until today, but is anyone else reminded of Jason Patric’s character from Your Friends and Neighbors?
— pc · Oct 2, 11:44 PM · #
Also this, Kristoffer:
There’s nothing so awful as the moment you realize your dreams are within reach.
— Tony Comstock · Oct 3, 01:01 AM · #
I want to answer these questions!
(1)The shaving cream he prefers.
(2)His approach to sex ought to be one he finds satisfying.
(3)Sex reassignment surgery.
These are easy!
— Will Wilkinson · Oct 3, 07:25 AM · #
Wow, Tony, I appreciate that. Happy weekend, btw.
— Kristoffer V. Sargent · Oct 3, 04:47 PM · #
Shaving Gel? Pfeh! Real men use shaving soap and a damned straight razor!
— Paludicola · Oct 4, 01:58 AM · #