Race as a Cudgel, Cont'd Again
Awhile back, I criticized columnist Charles Blow for a piece he did on a Tea Party rally near Dallas. After watching speeches by a black doctor, a Latina activist, and a Vietnamese immigrant, Mr. Blow wrote a column that basically called them minstrels. Several bloggers I enjoy pushed back against my post, and the whole thing went a couple rounds.
In a serious breach of blogging etiquette, I withdrew from the conversation so that I could do some reporting, hoping that I could get ahold of the speakers in question to get their perspective. At this point, I’ve talked to one of the speakers, and found video posted of all four speeches mentioned in the column — so I’ve revisited the topic here, where you can find all the relevant links.
Impressive reporting. Getting the actual videos and stories is definitely illuminating to the discussion of the specific charge particularly since you’re gracious in acknowledging the larger pooints of the other discussants.
— Greg Sanders · Apr 30, 11:50 AM · #
No.
Those people are not conservatives……I would bet they don’t know what conservatism is.
Did you ask that Conor?
They are fellow travelers with the Tea Party movement, which is a conservative christian grievence movement.
They aren’t minstrels….they are tokens….and….they were ALL christians spouting some irrational socialsm/taxcuts/real America/Obama-is-a-marxist half-baked cukoo ideology larded with god and jesus.
The Vietnamese guy spoke the truth…Tea Party Jesus is the real leader of the Tea Party.
— matoko_chan · Apr 30, 12:28 PM · #
Just to qualify matoko_chan. I think you’ve got a point that the social conservative wing of the GOP are FAPP a conservative Christian grievance movement.
But the TPM includes a high percentage of econo-conservatives, whose main motivation is taxes and deficits and debt – Classical middle class concerns.
I think it’s true that the socons are trying to co-opt the TPM with say, Sarah Palin adopting large elements of the platform, but I think it hasn’t been totally successful as long as the Paulites etc. continue to be so influential in the TPM.
— Keid A · Apr 30, 01:51 PM · #
Spock, the Paulites don’t go to rallies.
That is my point about there being two Tea Parties…..the individuals that self-select to attend rallies are uniformly christians.
Conor is talking about selfselected teaparty attendees: black, hispanic, and asian.
Conservative christians all the way down.
I don’t think you can call them socons…they won’t selfidentify as socons.
They are uniformly conservative christians.
— matoko_chan · Apr 30, 02:16 PM · #
I’ll tell you something else Matoko, I’ve known many people in the Vietnamese postwar refugee community. I have worked with them and socialized with them. And I have to tell you: Mr Ha is no token. I too have met Vietnamese with values like his – passionately anticommunist Christians. You have to understand their history.
— Keid A · Apr 30, 02:37 PM · #
Conor, perhaps I’m being unfair to you, but it seems as though you always address this question of Tea Party racism by disconnecting it from the racial past and present of the conservatism and the Republican Party of which the TP movement is clearly part. If you start out by saying the racial insensitive and outright bigoted practices and commentary of the Right is to be excluded and the Tea Party must be considered independent and untainted by its and its members association with such things, you’re rigging the game to get the answer you want.
For example, your trueslant essay touches on the problem of black Republicans and the negative reaction they commonly receive from other African-Americans. But that negative reaction can only be understood in the context of the way the GOP has handled race, especially for the last 40+ years. Would anyone find it exceptional or all that objectionable if an Israeli who allied himself with the PLO received a negative reaction from other Israelis?
Mike
— MBunge · Apr 30, 03:09 PM · #
You are fair Mike.
Conor desperately wants to see the TPM as sign of hope for conservatives…a new direction.
It is not.
It is a sign of how the conservative base has distilled down to religious fanatics….pure christian, non-representative of mainstream america.
The TPM is a harbinger of doom.
— matoko_chan · Apr 30, 03:51 PM · #
“it seems as though you always address this question of Tea Party racism by disconnecting it from the racial past and present of the conservatism and the Republican Party of which the TP movement is clearly part. If you start out by saying the racial insensitive and outright bigoted practices and commentary of the Right is to be excluded and the Tea Party must be considered independent and untainted by its and its members association with such things, you’re rigging the game to get the answer you want.”
It seems to me that most liberal Democrats don’t give two figs about the destruction of South Vietnam, the thousands of boat people who died, the hundreds of thousands of refugees, the massive suffering etc. All these things happened as a direct and predictable result of actions of the Democratic Party. And nobody cared. Not once have the feckless, hateful Tom and Daisies like Mike apologized, because they don’t care. In fact, they wish that Vietnamese refugees would disappear and die, because those refugees disrupt their preferred narrative of “minorities are good, minorities are Democratic.”
Just saying.
— y81 · Apr 30, 03:57 PM · #
quit throwing chaff y81.
go play intellectual footsies with your grrl Palin, that is about all you’re capable of.
Praps you and PEG and Palin can have a menage a trois.
Mike has the truthsay….history counts.
Conor wants to take the TPM’s inherent historical racist actions out of the equation.
Why are you all so pissy about empirical demographics?
Aren’t you proud to be the Christian Party?
— matoko_chan · Apr 30, 04:17 PM · #
“All these things happened as a direct and predictable result of actions of the Democratic Party.”
Really? I mean, Nixon and his Republicans, to say nothing of the North Vietnamese Communists and the Viet Cong, don’t share some of that responsibility? “Just saying,” indeed… You say much, with little substance behind it.
— Erik Vanderhoff · Apr 30, 04:58 PM · #
Not fair, y81. I’m a Democrat and some of my best friends are Vietnamese boat people. Even my staunchest liberal allies concede there are some “good ones.”
— turnbuckle · Apr 30, 05:22 PM · #
I find y81’s comments purely reflect the essence of the current conservative ethos——
Butthurt Whiny Ass Titty Babies with Bunker Mentality.
The “PeeWee Herman” argument we saw applied here by y81 is a perfect example of conservative responses to accusations of everything from epistemic closure to racism.
I know you are but what am I?
Grow up.
— matoko_chan · Apr 30, 06:20 PM · #
Mike,
If you defend someone picking on black conservatives by saying that they’ve been mistreated in the past by other people, aren’t you defending racism?— J Mann · Apr 30, 07:53 PM · #
J Mann…..
“I know you are but what am i? neener neener”
jeez you people.
no wonder im turning emo.
if only i could hate you as much as i hate myself
……for ever listening to your bullshytt.
apolos to the Immortal Falloutboy
— matoko_chan · Apr 30, 11:21 PM · #
pardon, that should have been
shorter J Mann:
“i know you are, but what am i? neener neener!”
— matoko_chan · Apr 30, 11:23 PM · #
“But that negative reaction can only be understood in the context of the way the GOP has handled race, especially for the last 40+ years. Would anyone find it exceptional or all that objectionable if an Israeli who allied himself with the PLO received a negative reaction from other Israelis?”
mbunge, if the Republican party had sponsored countless acts of kidnapping, terrorism, and murder against blacks over the last forty years—the way that, say, the KKK base of the Democratic party did for a hundred years after the Civil War—then I could see how blacks might equate voting for the GOP with an Israeli allying with the PLO. But here’s the thing, the Republican party has not sponsored kidnapping, terrorism, or the murder of blacks over the last forty years, so your PLO analogy is just a tad overboard.
— Tim O'Rourke · May 1, 11:21 AM · #
Shorter Tim:
“i know you are, but what am i? neener neener!”
The past is dust dude.
As long as the GOP ferociously opposes the cultural evolution of a new social compact, conservatism is riding a death train to demographic oblivion.
“Dig Lindsay.“http://news.yahoo.com/s/cq/20100430/pl_cq_politics/politics3652496
However, Graham said the GOP will never be a national party until it changes course on immigration and improves its relationship with young people, who voted overwhelmingly for Barack Obama.
“That’s why I’m involved in the climate and energy debate. I think Republicans need to be proudly for clean air. And, I think it’s important that Republicans repair the damage with Hispanics done in the 2007 immigration debate.”
— matoko_chan · May 1, 12:39 PM · #
The “KKK base of the Democratic party”? Everybody knows those guys vote Republican, now. Have for decades.
No, just disenfranchisement, oppression, incarceration, and ridicule. Not as bad as the PLO, to be sure.
— Chet · May 1, 05:06 PM · #
Chet, that is the consistant rebuttal of the right.
like….yeah we are racists but you guyz are worse racists…..blahblah LBJ blah welfare-slavery….blah blah.
like…yeah we are dogmatic anti-empirical bigots in our attachment to religion….but atheism is a religion and you are worse.
It devolves to the core argument of “well we are stupid but you’re stupider”.
alas just don’t think that is true.
It think the right is approaching peak stupid.
— matoko_chan · May 1, 05:54 PM · #
lawl…..its the Strom Thurmond WAS A DEMOCRAT!!!! argument.
man, quelles idiotes
— matoko_chan · May 1, 05:58 PM · #
hey TAS…..consider this….
Goldberg’s opus magnus Liberal Fascism is just one big long windy high-verbal “i know you are but what am i”.
— matoko_chan · May 1, 07:52 PM · #
I have been following this disagreement, and just read your followup. I have to say that I still think that Coates, Sewer and the rest are more right about this than you are, but I think it is so great that you are not just spouting off, but actually thinking about this and responding to your critics’ most salient points.
— frankye · May 1, 09:51 PM · #
“The “KKK base of the Democratic party”? Everybody knows those guys vote Republican, now. Have for decades.”
Except they no longer belong to the Klan and vote for racist policies. But I am thrilled Chet that even a race-baiter such as yourself can see the difference between the GOP from over the last forty years or so and the PLO. Progress!
— Tim O'Rourke · May 4, 04:09 AM · #
Makoto Chan,
Let me get this straight. When mbunge mentions the Republican Party’s poor record on race from over the last forty years, then “history counts” as you write. But when I mention the Democratic Party’s disastrous record on race from an earlier era, then suddenly “the past is dust dude.” How convenient. But my favorite is when you urge y81 to grow up after writing this: “Butthurt Whiny Ass Titty Babies with Bunker Mentality.” Beyond parody! Thanks for the laughs.
— Tim O'Rourke · May 4, 04:16 AM · #
Maybe the first, but definitely not the second. Why, we’ve just seen the past two weeks where Arizona’s Republican legislature has made it a crime to be Brown While American and forbids multiculturalism in schools and prevents anybody without a Texas accent from teaching English. And you’re trying to tell me Republicans aren’t voting for “racist policy?” Hilarious.
That you want to be able to completely ignore the demographic and political shift that sent southern racists migrating to the Republican party? That you want to pretend the “Southern Strategy” never happened?
Yes, very convenient indeed.
— Chet · May 4, 04:37 PM · #
Tim, voters have short memories….who is alive today that was in the civil war?
Srsly, what are you doing that is going to fix your little demographic evolution problem with teh dark of skin?
Yelling the dems were worse 40 years ago is going to work?
Like Freddie said, people are going to vote their self-interest.
Some large contingent of your base ARE racists, and you are so hooked on the racebaiting that you can’t stop.
What you need to do is acknowledge the fact that your base is racist, and educate them that racism is wrong.
What a concept……educate the base…..conservatives have selected for erm….low-information in their base for years.
Relly, selecting for people too dumb to understand ToE is just selection for stupid.
Racebaiting and IQbaiting sum up the memetic breeding that has given you Sarah Palin, and she is the realization of the exquisitely evolved disease that is going to destroy the GOP for 40 years.
— matoko_chan · May 5, 12:21 AM · #