Alternatives to Neoliberalism
Henry Farrell, as quoted criticizing Matt Yglesias:
To put it more succinctly – even if left-leaning neo-liberals are right to claim that technocratic solutions and market mechanisms can work to relieve disparities etc, it’s hard for me to see how left-leaning neo-liberalism can generate any self-sustaining politics.
Kevin Drum agrees:
If the left ever wants to regain the vigor that powered earlier eras of liberal reform, it needs to rebuild the infrastructure of economic populism that we’ve ignored for too long. Figuring out how to do that is the central task of the new decade.
But Matt Yglesias responds:
So I really, strongly, profoundly agree with this. The moment someone comes up with a workable idea on this front, please sign me up. But if there’s no idea to debate, then there’s no idea to debate. Debating the desirability of devising some hypothetical future good idea seems kind of pointless to me.
But this completely misses the point. Neither of his critics are primarily saying that neoliberal policy ideas are bad. They are saying that neoliberalism is bad politics – not because it can’t win an election, but because it is based on running on good ideas, winning elections, and then implementing those good ideas. And that’s not a self-sustaining politics. From a more traditional left-wing perspective, you don’t start with good ideas – you start with ideas for how to establish enduring power bases.
Broadly speaking, the alternatives to liberalism reject the goal of finding the best policy, meaning the policy that will benefit the most people, in favor of promoting policies that may hurt more people than they help, but that shift the balance of power in favor of the group you’re seeking to represent.
I think what both Matt and his critics are talking about is how to make things better for working-class Americans. If I were starting from that premise – how can I reliably improve conditions for working-class Americans – and I accepted a critique of liberals (neo or not) as naive about policy, I’d say: working-class Americans will be unable to secure a better economic deal until they wield more power. And what strengthens the hand of labor more than anything is tighter labor markets.
Now, Matt might well agree with this, and say that the best way to get to tighter labor markets is to have looser monetary policy. But you can get to tighter labor markets either of two ways: you can increase the number of jobs, or you can restrain the growth of the labor force. Historically, all sorts of legislative initiatives had as at least part of their purpose the goal of restraining the growth of the labor force – child labor laws and mandatory public schooling (no labor competition from underage workers) and immigration restriction (no competition from immigrants from lower-wage countries) are some obvious examples, but Jim Crow laws and pervasive discrimination against women also worked to restrain the growth of the (white male) labor force.
I hope nobody would seriously argue today for driving women out of the workforce as a way of reducing the labor pool and increasing the clout of working-class men (by, among other things, reducing women to a state of abject dependence on said men). But that feminism – which yielded huge benefits for women and substantial net benefits for society as a whole – didn’t involve tradeoffs in the past with other goals. One could certainly argue that the same is true today when it comes to trade or immigration. Liberal policies could authentically be more beneficial for humanity in general – they could even be more beneficial for Americans in general – while also having consequences that are negative for the power of organizations devoted to advancing the economic interests of working-class Americans specifically.
Looking at the other side of the ledger – increasing the number of jobs – may be more ideologically congenial. Matt may be right that the single thing that would most efficiently improve the jobs picture is looser monetary policy. (As I’ve written many times, I think our status as a substantial debtor nation and sponsor of the world’s reserve currency raises questions about whether this is true or not; Japan, by contrast, whose monetary policy Ben Bernanke criticized in his academic work, was a massive foreign creditor all through their “lost decade” of the 1990s.) But viewed from the perspective of power, the question to ask isn’t whether looser monetary policy is a good idea in general but whose interests are served by tighter versus looser monetary policy. Clearly, up to a point (nobody benefits from a depression), tighter monetary policy is in the interests of creditors, just as, up to a point (nobody benefits from an inflationary spiral), looser monetary policy is in the interests of debtors. So the question then becomes: why is the Fed more responsive to creditor interests than to debtor interests, and how could that balance be changed? Allow me to suggest that the communications problem alone involved in making monetary policy as such – rather than the more obvious manifestations of clout by large financial institutions – is a pretty serious one. It may well be that efforts to combat unemployment directly – by employing people – while substantially less-efficient, would both garner more public support and create a base of support for the continuance of such programs (as in: people who don’t want to be laid off). This is the same kind of argument Matt himself makes when it comes to the stimulus bill and fear of “waste” – sometimes there are higher priorities than efficiency.
Playing politics means making choices, setting priorities. Yglesias’s priority for the incoming Obama Administration was a carbon-pricing scheme that (he hoped) would at least slow the progress of climate change. The priority of the Democratic Party was passing health-care legislation establishing, in principle, a right to health care (and, hence, an individual obligation to purchase it – individual rights are just the obverse of individual obligations, after all). That choice didn’t reflect any analysis of which problem – health care or climate change – was more important; it reflected some combination of a calculus about what could be accomplished (the votes were never there for a carbon-pricing law) and a calculus about what would enduringly improve the balance of power between labor and capital (a carbon tax would be vastly easier to repeal than the health care law, for one thing; for another, the health care legislation would give the government an enduring lever to bend American health care in the direction of more economically equal outcomes; for a third, battles over benefits for legacy employees arguably have derailed the American labor movement for a generation; I could go on). Someone to Yglesias’ left might say that EFCA was more important than the health-care bill, and should have been a higher Administration priority.
The broad point is: alternatives to neoliberalism won’t be as liberal. They be less-likely to prioritize efficiency. They will also be less-likely to prioritize positive-sum solutions. They will also be less-likely to prioritize basic fairness or democratic principles or whatever else. They will assign a higher priority to increasing the economic and political power of the people they are trying to represent (or their designated representatives). That’s not Matt’s starting point, and that’s why he comes to different conclusions.
Nonsense. Sure, it’s self-sustaining! Once things are good, neoliberals will lose elections to wealthy “conservative” malefactors who will claim that things could be better, that we’re currently in a benighted age of things being terrible, and isn’t it a shame that the guy in charge is a socialist foreigner instead of a Real American; and their policies will make it better for a small number of elites and worse for everybody else, and then neoliberals will once again return to power with good ideas to make things good again.
Perfectly self-sustaining due to the short memories of the electorate and the anger and fear of the elderly.
— Ch3t · Jul 18, 05:32 PM · #
I kind of regret this post, actually, since (a) I’m sure Matt knows perfectly well everything I’ve said, and (b) I’m not a leftist, so I’m basically making other people’s arguments for them. But, you know, whatever.
— Noah Millman · Jul 18, 05:44 PM · #
Whether or not Yglesias knows what you’ve said, I think the way you’ve chosen to phrase it is interesting, probably not the light he’d have cast it in, and illuminates something I’ve been grappling with and might get smart enough to articulate later. For now I think the formulation of, neoliberalism-as-opposed-to-interest-group-liberalism, is a powerful one.
— Kieselguhr Kid · Jul 18, 07:41 PM · #
You are worrying too hard about logic.
It’s hard to overestimate how much of the conventional wisdom of today’s public intellectuals is motivated not by logic but by mindless “Who? Whom?” enmity and petty class snobbery.
Consider carbon emissions. A moment’s thought would point out that mass immigration from poor (e.g., Guatemala) or middling (e.g., Mexico) countries to rich America is likely to increase carbon emissions in both the U.S. and the world. Either the immigrants are going to assimilate economically, and thus vastly multiply their carbon emissions, or they will fail to assimilate economically, with a variety of unfortunate consequences for the U.S.
This logic is close to tautologically obvious, but it’s almost unmentioned, because it’s almost unmentionable?
Why? Because the conventional wisdom about mass immigration isn’t driven by logic, but by hatred. The conventional wisdom’s purveyors believe that people who are skeptical about mass immigration are the enemy: they are low class, nativist, xenophobic, racist, etc. etc. By extension, illegal immigrants, being assumed to be the enemies of our enemies, must be Prius-driving sophisticates just like us.
— Steve Sailer · Jul 18, 07:54 PM · #
Looking at your three quotations, one gets a sense of the futility of it all. You could likely find substantively identical quotations penned by their counterparts (Robert Kuttner and Charles Peters, perhaps) a generation ago.
— Art Deco · Jul 18, 09:02 PM · #
“Years ago I recognized my kinship with all living beings, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on earth. I said then, and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element, I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison I am not free.”
Left wing politics means priority for the worst off above all things.
— Freddie · Jul 18, 10:26 PM · #
“Left wing politics means priority for the worst off above all things.”
Priority for the meanest, low class, criminals?
— mike farmer · Jul 18, 10:57 PM · #
If neo-liberal policies produced beneficial results, wouldn’t that go a long way toward eliminating any political weakness? Wouldn’t the groups that benefit from those policies, or at least expect to benefit from those policies, then rally to their support? Perhaps the problem is that neo-liberal policies don’t produce or even promise results that attract enough popular enthusiasm.
Mike
— MBunge · Jul 19, 12:51 PM · #
As usual, I think Sailer hit the nail on the head. Meanwhile, always fun to read Freddie who apparently thinks that Eugene Debs was a real poet and thinker, as opposed to a fool and traitor.
— Fake Herzog · Jul 19, 01:56 PM · #
Freddie, I think that’s a good normative criterion for what left-wing politics ought to be about. It’s close both to Rawls and to Catholic social theory.
But you can’t escape the question of whether conventional left-wing ideas actually do benefit the worst off. Yglesias argues that they sometimes don’t: they sometimes reflect the producer interests of those employed by the state. If it is impossible to fire terrible teachers or for convicts to get jobs cutting hair, then what the left is really doing is protecting its insiders at the expense of outsiders.
Now that may in turn be inevitable and the lesser evil to power in the hands of Big Business and cultural-religious traditionalists. But that’s the case the neoliberals are making: sometimes interest groups use the state to defend themselves at the expense of the worst off.
— Pithlord · Jul 19, 08:26 PM · #
If Yglesias cared about the American working class he would write about our current trade policies. I have seen very little from him on trade.
He would also advocate more restrictive immigration if he cared about the American working class. He advocates the opposite. Yglesia shows no concern for American workers when it come to immigration and great passion for high levels of immigration.
— Mercer · Jul 19, 11:48 PM · #
Yglesias is explicit that as a good utilitarian he gives no priority to the interests of Americans as opposed to anyone else. I think this must be right as a matter of fundamental morality, and it seems consistent with Galatians 3:28. I wonder though if it makes sense as a decision principle for the American government or for American democratic deliberation.
— Pithlord · Jul 20, 01:35 AM · #
I think that the left in America is fundamentally more fractured than the right. Environmentalists place a priority on reducing global warming, but this alienates the socialists who place a priority on raising the living standards of the poor. Equal rights activists support gay marriage, to the horror of many Hispanic immigrants and their lobby, who themselves horrify the labor activists.
The Republicans have a much more cohesive coalition. Social conservatives have their issues, business conservatives have their issues, military conservatives have their issues, and they rarely conflict (the deficit is the rare exception, and has only recently become salient).
— Jay · Jul 20, 09:52 AM · #
Pithlord,
Just a quick note — while it is certainly possible to argue what you are arguing about “Catholic social theory”, “fundamental morality”, and even the New Testament; you should also be aware that there are plenty of Catholic thinkers (besides me!) who would argue that you are being silly and that nationalism and love of place and neighbor are not fundamentally at odds with Catholic ideas of love and charity. Subsidiarity is the key idea linking the two.
— Fake Herzog · Jul 20, 11:18 AM · #
I think there’s a magnum opus (or at least a kindle single) waiting to be written on strands of liberalism and the conflict between egalitarianism for all and interest group politics leading to improvements only for certain groups. Who’s going to do it?
— lewismd · Jul 20, 05:50 PM · #
I didn’t say, and don’t think, that love of place and neighbor are fundamentally at odds with Catholic notions of love and charity. Thinking only Americans are worthy of moral concern, on the other hand, is another matter.
I’m not so sure it is possible to reconcile nationalism with subsidiarity. Nationalism is an ideology, and it tends to demand total devotion. Subsidiarity would be consistent with saying that the American government and political community has its sphere, and Amreicans should seek to further the good of that particular community. But each American is and should be part of other communities, including other political communities, and the claims of the USA ultimately should get no greater recognition than Augustine was willing to give to the Roman Empire.
Freddies’ quote from Debs seems to me like a secularized echo of Matthew 25.
— Pithlord · Jul 21, 01:29 PM · #
Pith,
Your argument is getting slippery. First you said “Yglesias is explicit that as a good utilitarian he gives no priority to the interests of Americans as opposed to anyone else. I think this must be right as a matter of fundamental morality, and it seems consistent with Galatians 3:28.” Now I think this is both bad morality (I’m not a utilitarian) and bad theology (I don’t think anything in the New Testament suggests we can’t be worried about our families and neighbors first).
But then you say something else: “Thinking only Americans are worthy of moral concern, on the other hand, is another matter.” Clearly there is a difference in saying, as someone who lives in Chicago, I’m going to worry about “the least” of my neighbors here in Chicago, then my neighbors in Illinois, then America, and finally the world versus saying I don’t think people outside of America are worthy of moral concern. This is the idea behind subsidiarity. I agree that if my nation were to do something immoral or harmful to someone around the world, I should stand in solidarity with those who are not my fellow citizens (e.g. I support the efforts of non-American Catholics who oppose the U.S. when it comes to our efforts to promote birth control and abortion via the U.N. and assorted N.G.O.s)
But I do disagree with your claim that nationalism must always “demand total devotion” and that we can’t properly give “greater recognition” to our family, friends and neighbors when practicing Christian love and charity.
As for Debs and Matthew 25 — I see your point and agree that one of the most important corporal works of mercy we can all perform is visiting those in jail or prison. But I think it is wrong and confusing to argue that one is “of the criminal class” or stands in solidarity with them, as if those in jail or prison didn’t deserve to be there, which is what Debs’ quote implies to me.
— Fake Herzog · Jul 21, 05:22 PM · #
I was definitely being imprecise with the phrase “fundamental morality” and I would backtrack a bit. What I meant was that at the most fundamental level, everyone is worthy of equal moral concern. (That isn’t peculiarly utilitarian, but it is implied by utilitarianism). However, we are all part of communities smaller than humanity, and there is nothing wrong with that community promoting its own particular good. So the American government can rightly promote the interests of Americans, as opposed to other humans, and the Ohio government can rightly promote the interests of Ohioans. So I was disagreeing with Yglesias.
OTOH, I would have to say that making an ideology out of the legitimate sentiment of patriotism (i.e., nationalism) at minimum has the potential to turn the state into an idol.
— Pithlord · Jul 22, 01:55 AM · #
In terms of NT texts that suggest the Kingdom of God disrupts familial and ethnic loyalties, I’d start with Luke 14:26, Luke 10:25-37 (the Good Samaritan parable).
— Pithlord · Jul 22, 02:01 AM · #
Pith,
Thanks for the thoughtful reply — we are now in basic agreement and I would add you are right about the dangers inherent in nationalism and how the “Kingdom of God”, at the very least, can disrupt familial and ethnic loyalties.
The only thing I still disagree about is whether or not utilitarianism implies that “everyone is worthy of equal moral concern”. I always thought it was a moral philosophy that was more consequentialist, and therefore would sacrifice individuals for the greater good of the community, if that sacrifice (e.g. shooting down Flight 93) could save more lives than those that were sacrificed. If instead, we start from the Christian premise that everyone is of equal moral concern that no one can ever be sacrificed for anyone else’s good (i.e. you must not do evil so that good may come of it).
Anyway, it was a pleasure arguing with you.
— Fake Herzog · Jul 22, 10:27 AM · #