Bettering Ezra's List
As Peter notes, Ezra Klein’s strangely controversial JournoList is “actually pretty normal, and probably raises the quality of blogging and writing for all involved.” I’d hasten to add, however, that were I assembling an e-mail list, I’d want to include some fair-minded people who don’t share my ideology, so that I could benefit from their perspective too — the criticism of JournoList stems in part from the intuition that were it a purely journalistic project, it wouldn’t be liberals only.
I don’t think objectivity is necessarily compromised when a writer for an ideologically unaligned publication associates with activists or ideologically aligned journalists (so long as those aren’t their only associations). Were I to get a job at the New York Times tomorrow, I’d certainly continue to attend panel discussions at America’s Future Foundation, read the work done by folks at The Claremont Institute and the Manhattan Institute, get together for drinks with my former colleagues Peter Suderman, James Poulos, and Jillian Bandes, and otherwise benefit from the company and ideas of people on the right.
The best way to assess the objectivity of my work would remain the single factor that is always relevant when rendering such judgments: the substance of the work itself. That is how I intend to judge work by liberal journalists who purport to produce objective journalism, whether or not they participate in Ezra’s organization.
Still, look at Reihan’s post:
The idea of a safe space in which you can be confident that your words won’t be manipulated by “the other side” for partisan advantage is straightforwardly attractive. And yet that raises the question of how to set the boundaries. As a minor-league policy wonk, I find the idea of taking part in off-the-record conversations with eminent historians, economists, and reporters very attractive — yet I was told early on that I wasn’t eligible, for the excellent and obvious reason that my sympathies aren’t generally on the left. Though I could agree to the off-the-recordness of the JList, I’d inevitably discuss its contents with conservative friends and collaborators, like The Atlantic’s own Ross Douthat.
Reihan is a exceptionally smart, intellectually generous, and someone who can be trusted to keep his word. Were he admitted to JournoList, I am certain he’d contribute insights and smart critiques that benefited those trying to think through ideas. And were Reihan to co-write a piece with Ross Douthat weeks later, informed by ideas he encountered on JournoList, I fail to see what harm it would do to anyone save the kind of partisan who wants “the other side” to be represented by its worst rather than its best ideas. That doesn’t describe Ezra and the few others who I know to be JournoList members, though I am ignorant as to the bulk of its membership. I’ll nevertheless offer them a word of advice: if Reihan Salam is ever willing to give an off-the-record critique of your ideas before you publish them, you’d do well to take him up on the offer.
I’m not entirely sure what your point is here, beyond “Reihan is smart.”
(and he is!)
— Freddie · Mar 20, 07:06 PM · #
My point is that insofar as JournoList is comprised of people whose work is to be journalists, and who hope to improve their thinking and writing through that platform, they’d benefit from welcoming someone like Reihan who was apparently willing to participate. So smart as Reihan is, I disagree with his assertion that his exclusion came for an excellent reason.
— Conor Friedersdorf · Mar 20, 07:33 PM · #
Teams are a good thing. Not always and not when they start knifing each other in the street, but within reason they can do a lot of good. This is a point I take from Yuval. And an essential component of freedom of association is the freedom not to associate. If this subject weren’t so inside baseball, I’d be strongly inclined to write something on why the JournoList approach wouldn’t work for the right — which is a shame, in my view.
Our sensibilities cut against the freewheeling nature of the list, though Eugene Volokh’s old Center Right mailing list had some corresponding features, if I recall correctly. Then again, the right has grown more calcified since then. I’d be interesting in trying to put something together, but I doubt it would have the same reach and I doubt that we’d draw people of the same caliber. I think Ed Glaeser can go toe-to-toe with Paul Krugman any day of the week. But I doubt he’d want to take part in a high-volume listserv with the likes of me. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg.
Also, I really don’t think I’d have that much to contribute to something like the JList — maybe I’d weigh in on flame wars, but that’s not my style. The Krugman worldview has a lot of value, but it is fundamentally at odds with mine. I’d love to listen in, and I’m sure I’d get a lot of value out of “lurking,” but I doubt I’d make interventions that reflect the spirit of the enterprise — because the spirit of the enterprise is, I think, to foster discussion and to float informal ides among like-minded thinkers.
— Reihan · Mar 21, 12:01 AM · #
Having run an email list with lots of prominent members for a decade now, I can say that it reveals something about personal character when a big shot starts off by dropping a well-polished line into the discussion that has worked for years to squelch uppity undergrads or other talking heads, only to get logically crushed in return by some nobody he’s never heard of, some obscurity with a name like, to pick an example, Greg Cochran.
Rather quickly, one of two things happens.
- The big name retires to lick his wounds and never comes back. Who needs the aggravation? The whole world tells me I’m brilliant, so why should I believe my lying eyes that this Cochran character is smarter than me, and that much of what I make a nice living telling the world is just conventional wisdom that’s not true? So, I’m outta here.
- Or, he starts to spar more respectfully, then he starts to ask questions, then he starts to rethink some fundamental issues.
Somehow, though, I don’t think Ezra’s list works quite like that.
— Steve Sailer · Mar 21, 12:48 AM · #
Reihan writes:
Why do you imagine that this is not true of the left? That is, if the supposed fossilization of the right is an impediment towards implementing a JournoList-style listserv, then I conclude you must think the left has been immune to such a thing, given that JournoList exists. But, if by calcification you mean partisan entrenchment and an unwillingness to engage with the other side, then the left is surely as guilty as the right. For every Ezra Klein there is a, well, a Paul Krugman.
I bring this up not just to be pedantic, but because part of the charge against JournoList is that it could encourage this sort of partisan calcification.
— Blar · Mar 21, 01:05 AM · #
But, if by calcification you mean partisan entrenchment and an unwillingness to engage with the other side, then the left is surely as guilty as the right.
That simply isn’t true, and the fact that people such as yourself continue to confront every problem the right faces by sticking your fingers in your ears and saying “the left does it too” only ensures that real problems don’t get solved.
Somehow, though, I don’t think Ezra’s list works quite like that
Why, beyond the fact that you disagree with him politically?
— Freddie · Mar 21, 01:37 PM · #
You really mean that partisan entrenchment is soley a symptom of the right? That’s a stunning assertion, and seems much more like “sticking your fingers in your ears” than anything I ever wrote.
— Blar · Mar 22, 05:42 AM · #
Somehow, though, I don’t think Ezra’s list works quite like that
Why, beyond the fact that you disagree with him politically?
Because it’s organized by Ezra Klein? I have read his blog — mind-expanding it’s not.
— Steve Sailer · Mar 22, 06:44 AM · #
The Journolist is an echo chamber. Thats the short name for a list of like minded individuals that don’t want outside input. That they feel the need for this sort of idealogical group hug is evidence enough of their relative insecurities…
— M00se · Mar 22, 06:57 AM · #