Meta American Scene
I enjoyed Reihan’s column on Iran, the Matt Frost critique, the Daniel Larison many-barreled rebuttal and the Freddie de Boer effort at contextualization. More than any of them, however, I enjoy that all were written, and that Reihan mounted a good-humored, substantive defense here.
It is helpful to see an author concede, qualify and reassert. I now possess a better understanding of his argument, the matters he cares most about emphasizing, and the parts of his foreign policy posture that persuade me to re-examine my own. Everyone involved in this exchange is better for it—almost as if forceful disagreement among open-minded, intellectually honest people leads at least toward a better understanding of where disagreements lie, and often toward a clearer understanding of the world.
Of course, this could have gone another way. Matt might have decided against offering any criticism of Reihan due to the fact that both are on Team American Scene. Reihan could have responded to Daniel by sanctimoniously lamenting that he is anti-freedom, and dismissed Freddie as unworthy of a substantive response because he is a liberal, and therefore evil. All the while, folks in the comments section could have cheered Reihan on by aiming juvenile insults at his critics and impugning their motives.
It is obvious to me that real Reihan is now far better equipped that counter-factual Reihan to advocate for sound Iran policies — and that the former approach to discourse is self-evidently better than the latter. But it sure isn’t obvious to everyone!
amen!
— razib · Jun 25, 04:29 AM · #
Conor, you radical. Don’t you know that shouting down your opponents and alienating your friends is the only way toward true purity?
In all seriousness, this has indeed been a fantastic exchange. This is exactly what conservatism needs, and proves that a bigger tent is possible, if only those trying to stifle on dialogue would cut it the hell out. You’ve run into a few of those folks haven’t you?
— E.D. Kain · Jun 25, 04:49 AM · #
Quit being such a polite-dialogue wuss, Friedersdorf, and just tell us who should kill himself.
— Matt Feeney · Jun 25, 04:52 AM · #
As it happens, if I say that it’s a conservative who should kill himself The New York Times, The New Yorker, Vanity Fair, Rolling Stone and NPR are all going to get into a bidding war to bring me on staff, all part of their long-running conspiracy to subvert conservative values and destroy America by recruiting right-leaning heretics who went into journalism so that they could undermine what is right and good, for money. So I will answer your question, Matt, but only at the moment that most enhances my career.
— Conor Friedersdorf · Jun 25, 06:10 AM · #
I’m not seeing what part of this whole thing I can cherry pick for my next fund raising e-mail blast for my 501c. Useless.
— Tony Comstock · Jun 25, 11:39 AM · #
And if it’s not clear enough, that bit from James’ and Matt’s blogheads thing really stuck with me. Here’s a thought: commerce fosters cooperation, charity is divisive.
— Tony Comstock · Jun 25, 11:41 AM · #
Wow Tony that is my comment evah.
May I admire you?
— matoko_chan · Jun 25, 11:46 AM · #
FAVORITE!
— matoko_chan · Jun 25, 11:46 AM · #
The American Scene lives again! Given that Reihan is appearing everywhere, writing at a ferocious and undiminished clip, I’m surprised he had time to respond to his critics as lengthily, engagingly and refreshingly as he did. It brings to mind The American Scene circa 2006 when he and Ross were hatching schemes for world domination.
— ron · Jun 25, 11:55 AM · #
Yeah well…I don’t miss the part where Ross and Reihan were dealin’ Sarah Palin crack to the low information base. Just goes to show dealers should never sample their own merchandise.
— matoko_chan · Jun 25, 12:06 PM · #
I’ve heard Sarah Palin crack is the most addicting.
— Freddie · Jun 25, 12:50 PM · #
It’s my usual habit to ignore matoko’s baiting, but from the last comment it occurs to me that she is the contrapositive of Conor’s ideal, just with a different notion of heresy than Mark Levin.
— Blar · Jun 25, 12:52 PM · #
Sarah Palin is to conservative pundits as on-set STI transmission is to sex-positive pundits.
— Tony Comstock · Jun 25, 01:12 PM · #
Yeah. I very much appreciate them having an actual debate — as opposed to posting the same substance-less plea for the kids in the sandbox to play nice for the 1000th time.
This post sounds like it was written by an elementary school teacher.
— Steve · Jun 25, 01:22 PM · #
Blar…do you know what I see in the Major’s crystal ball right now?
The death of the republican party.
And all those Palin crack dealers are complicit.
Especially the upper right tailers, like Ross and Reihan.
— matoko_chan · Jun 25, 01:31 PM · #
QED
— Blar · Jun 25, 02:25 PM · #
lol @ Blar, my conclusions are based on facts, unlike Levin’s fundamentalist magical thinking and fanatical purges of heretics and apostates.
My hypothesis is that the base will force Palin as the nominee, which is bourne out by my link.
And then another kerbstompin’ at the polls.
“If the 2012 GOP primary were today, Palin might just win it; if the general election were tomorrow, she’d probably lose.
Another tidbit from Pew’s findings: public impressions of Palin haven’t changed much since October, with her total favorability climbing three percent since then, compared to 10 percent for Romney since Feb. 2008. Those time periods are far different, but the way Pew presents it, Palin’s public image has crystallized in a polarizing fashion, and the public has more or less made up their minds about her, one way or the other.”
— matoko_chan · Jun 25, 02:48 PM · #
Back on topic….what is the point of Reihan’s herculean efforts to put Failed Conservative Memes on lifesupport?
Shouldn’t the evo culture way be just to let them die sad lonely deaths for the good of the GOP?
— matoko_chan · Jun 25, 03:07 PM · #
zomg, I can’t resist.
I am weak.
“Recently we learned of a malicious desecration of a photo of the Governor and baby Trig that has become an iconic representation of a mother’s love for a special needs child.”
desecration!!!
hahahaha
— matoko_chan · Jun 25, 03:38 PM · #
This is sort of fun, like seeing how long I can keep a top spinning.
Levin would say the same thing.
Maybe not, for the sake of the environment for robust debate that Conor fancies.
— Blar · Jun 25, 03:54 PM · #
“Levin would say the same thing”
….but he would be wrong. —Napoleon Dynamite
Magical thinking
You know, magical thinking, like “Palin will win”, and “conservative failmemes will restore the party to power” in the face of cultural and demographic evolution as embodied by hard data in polls.
— matoko_chan · Jun 25, 04:25 PM · #
scientific polls.
— matoko_chan · Jun 25, 04:28 PM · #
Here’s a thought…instead of trying to put the failmemes on life support….kill them.
Like E.D.
— matoko_chan · Jun 25, 05:51 PM · #
This is the best part of visiting any comments section.
— Derek · Jun 25, 06:00 PM · #
Conor, I’m really curious what you think Reihan learned from this exchange that will enable him to advocate for sound Iranian policy. He seems an unrepentant neocon who will advocate for some sort of military intervention. He will of course do it in his witty and disarming manner, but that still doesn’t sound like sound Iranian policy to me.
— Steven Donegal · Jun 25, 09:33 PM · #